Season Two, Season Three, and Slimmy P.: A Discussion with “Kiff” Creators Nic Smal and Lucy Heavens

The highly-anticipated second season of the hit Disney Channel animated series, Kiff, is on approach with a debut set for next Saturday, March 15th, on Disney Channel, Disney XD and Disney XD On Demand on Saturday, March 15, at 10:00 a.m. EDT/PDT with two episodes. To help mark the occasion, I recently got to spend some time with showrunners Nic Smal and Lucy Heavens, to discuss some favorite things from the first season, what to expect in the second season, and even a little bit about the recently announced third season. Sounds like a lot of Kiff is coming, and we’re ready for it!

In the second season, Kiff and bunny bestie Barry embark on adventures that take them deeper into their ever-eccentric community of Table Town, where animals and magical oddballs navigate life, school, relationships and the quirks of their offbeat and loveable universe.

The show has been a ratings and critical hit, nominated for Outstanding Children’s or Young Teen Animated Series and Original Song for a Children’s or Young Teen Program for the upcoming 2025 Children’s and Family Emmy Awards. The recent full length special, “The Haunting of Miss McGravy’s House," is also discussed, a special which earned a nomination for Outstanding Kids & Family Programming or Film – Animated at the upcoming 2025 GLAAD Media Awards

Nic Smal and Lucy Heavens are the creators and executive producers of the series, which is produced by Titmouse in association with Disney Channel. In addition to their creative roles, Smal and Heavens both voice characters in the series. Smal is Principal Secretary, the principal of Table Town School, and Heavens is Helen, the school’s drama teacher. Smal also writes and co-produces the original songs in the series. I had previously sat with the duo ahead of the show’s premiere nearly two years ago in March of 2023, and I was pleasantly surprised that they had remembered me after all this time.

Tony

I won't ask you the same questions again, like “what do you hope Kiff's legacy will be?" because we’ve got a lot more Kiff coming with Season 2 and Season 3. I love the show, and It gives me a taste of my youth because I feel like it's very influenced by the 90s.

Nic Smal

Well. I mean that was how I spent the 90s - watching cartoons. Stylistically, it definitely will have that feel.

Lucy Heavens

I mean, we were kids in the 90s.

Yeah. I think aesthetically it definitely has that. It's a hand drawn show. It’s kind of got that look, but then we're telling stories from last weekend through to 25 years ago.

Or 30 years ago.

The one thing that always triggers it for me is actually musically, it's that little climb whenever there's like, thinking or puzzling, that to me just screams 1996.

Oh yeah. Oh, it's fair. And that's Brad Breeck, who does the score for the episode. He's created such a wonderful palette for those moments when a character's considering something or when something is, something's escalating…It's very minimalist at times, but it just really sets the tone wonderfully.

With season 2 coming up and then we have season 3 after it, you have the opportunity to do very large scale overarching stories. Kiff - I feel like it is a very standalone episode kind of show with lots of callbacks and Easter eggs, which is great, but is that something you'll explore or are we just going to kind of stick to the one 11 minute story at a time?

I mean, you as an audience member are rewarded for watching them in order. But our aim is never to do a long arc. I feel like it would be out of tone for the show to do it.

It's a show that you can jump in and watch any episode anytime, and you're gonna have a good time. But we do take great pride in continuity. So if something's happened in this episode, there might be a call back or it will remain there in the background or it'll influence the way that it is in the world of Table town from that point forward. We love to have that thread going for viewers that are watching it all in a row, to see it, you get rewarded.

Yeah, I appreciate that as somebody who loves to watch them all. The refrigerator magnet sticks out in my head. Slim Pickins sticks out in my head…which I'm still waiting for the theme song to hit an album somewhere, but there is no “Slimmy P" track yet.

(Laughing) Slimmy P. does have a long arc. I take it back!

We got season 2…. We're going to be checking in with Slimmy P.

Yeah!

Now I'm even more excited. I have seen two episodes of Season 2 so far and I did like what I saw. I did also notice a kind of jump in the animation quality. Is that just my imagination or are we ramping things up a bit?

Thank you for saying that!

Throughout season 1, even if you watch season 1, if you look at the final episodes and you look at the first episodes like you can see an evolution in the show. We have just been tightening and tightening as we go along and then we got to the end of season 1 and we knew we were going to be working on a season 2. It was like, OK, we have an opportunity to look at some of the way we've been drawing the characters lately and sort of just tweaking it up to that so that when we started season 2, the characters have a little bit of a design upgrade.

I wouldn't think you would notice it if you're 9, but for us it was like there were board artists who were drawing specific poses that we were gravitating more and more to, and there are so many learning curves that happen in any season one. It was our first show… For any show when there are, you know, 60 episodes in the first season, it just takes a minute for all of your heads of department to all get on the same page, and for our animation studio to get on the same page and at first we're giving tons of notes and then they've been slowly declining as everyone has been understanding how we like the animation to be. Yearim is our studio in Korea and they were extremely receptive. We've been to visit them. So we haven't changed studios or anything. It was just a long series of communications and getting the show to be [where we want it to be]. But it's a never ending process. We're always trying to improve it and everything.

We're really happy with how Season 2's looking, and even throughout season 2 it's doing the same thing. We're constantly tightening, so yeah, thank you for noticing.

One thing that I also feel like stepped up throughout season 1 into now - I want to know what the note sessions are like for the different facial expressions. There's always a close shot that just shows a crazy face or reaction.

Kiff is a hand drawn show, so you have the opportunity in your storyboards to kind of break model and do special poses. We always find that it's a delicate line because if you do that too much at the beginning of an episode, it almost takes away from that special moment where you have a wild, crazy, expression. We will use it sparingly, but we'll make sure we're using it at the right point. So we have actually gone like, “let's just keep that neutral expression, keep this neutral" and then when it feels like the time is right, we'll go in for a special pose..

Yeah. And they're often kind of static shots. That's when we like that. We call it the “neutral derp," which is where we like 85% of the episode to be, and then those special poses really hit. We have such fantastic board artists and they all have their own particular style of those special poses, and we can always see like, “oh, that's a Drew" who is one of our supervisors. “That's a Drew drawing" and it's amazing. Or, “that's an Adam" or “Allie"... they are so special and beautiful, those artists, we love them so much. And then obviously Nick and our supervising director, Allison, we just have drawing sessions and everyone draws their version of that special pose and we choose the one that everyone laughs at.

You've mentioned hand-drawn animation, but Nick, you tried something in the first season where we jumped into Reggie's VR headset, and if I understand correctly. That was all you doing the 3D animation. Are we doing any brave tactics or explorations like that in season 2?

Yes.

I’ll have you know that Nick's first crack at that was too good!

I had to make it look worse. That was a big moment as a showrunner. We're talking about this episode where we're imagining putting on this VR set and seeing what they're seeing. And we're like, “it would be so great if it was the worst CG, like the first ever.It's just, it's terrible" and we were like, “can we do this?" like would we have to go to a studio and there was like this moment of like, “well, it would be lovely if we could, but we'll probably have to do a 2D and, like make it feel like that". And then I was like, “wait, no, I have just enough knowledge of 3D to be able to do this over a weekend. I think I can do this. Am I allowed? Do I have to ask permission from anyone, or can I just do it?"and I just did it and then we were like “this is great!" It was like a realization. Like if you want to do something, you want to try something different, you want to break style, you don't need permission to do that. You just do it.

There are about four seconds of stop motion in season 2.

There's stop motion, which I did the exact same approach I was like. I want to do some stop motion. I want to do it. It's going to be fun for me to do over the weekend. I bought these little figures and characters and I made a little stop motion sequence that you'll see in season 2. So yeah, we are always looking for some fun opportunities. Again, when it suits and fits the concept.

Season 2 also has most of the cast coming back, namely Helen and Principal Secretary, but everybody else. Who, guest-wise, can we expect that you can talk about?

Oh, there’s some goodies. Nic wrote a song for an episode called “Rock Kick," which we had one of our favorite artists that we listen to all the time, Orville Peck, who came to sing on the track. And then, apart from that, we've had so many - the return of Rhys Darby who is always so great as Trollie.

John Stamos comes in for an episode.

Melissa Villasenor did such a great job recently. Yeah, I mean, we've been very lucky. We've had Tim Heidecker come now a number of times.

Tim Heidecker - You’ll meet Trollie’s old high school bully and that will be played by Tim Heidecker.

Yeah. We have been watching Tim Heidecker practically since we were teenagers, and he's so funny and there are, yeah, just the number of really funny fun guests. And as you say, our beloved cast returning in the roles that we love.

You mentioned Orville Peck and the music. Are we amping up the music for season 2, what more can we expect?

I'm very excited for people to hear the songs coming in season 2, I feel like they’re getting better. I feel like there's some real fun, catchy songs on the way. It's always a fun challenge and puzzling to figure out where it fits in in an episode.

We have some really beautiful songs.

Yeah some are just straight up funny and silly. And then like Lucy said, some there's not so much comedy in it, but it's more just a feeling, and you go on a little emotional journey with the characters, and that's the beauty of it.

Sometimes how seriously we take a song juxtaposed with how completely absurd and dumb the situation is makes for a very special type of comedy that we really enjoy making.

Yeah, there's even a bit for fans of the early 2000s new metal, “Limp Bizkit" genre, there’s even a bit of a new rap-metal song coming in Season 2.

To your point Lucy, about the wildly absurd and then there's that moment of sweetness. The last episode of Season 1, the pool party, has that crazy song and at that last moment when Kiff and Barry just kind of lean on each other and then that's the end of the season - I almost wept, that was just perfect. I’m expecting, and I’ll say “expecting" and you can elaborate more on that, that kind of absurdity with heart combined in season 2 and season 3.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's our whole deal.

OK. Got it. Boom. Moving on.

There's a lot of dumbness or “Dumpf" as we call it and silliness, but there's also a lot of heart and feel good.

That friendship, that relationship that's at the center of the show is very sacred to us.

Helen has a very emotional song

She does!

A very emotional song and it’s got it all!

Helen has feelings, okay?!

Table Town is a big place and it sounds like it's going to get a lot bigger in terms of the world building. We already have one holiday with Halfway There Day. Are we seeing that again or are we getting anything new?

The Table Tonians will be celebrating Halfway There Day again.

And I can't think of any new holiday. Of course, we love our Halloween specials.

Yeah, more Halloween specials on the way.

More of those are coming. Nic and I did not grow up experiencing Halloween like people in the US. And we were always jealous of it. We always saw these movies, we barely had Halloween candy in stores.

It is nowhere near what it is like in this country..

Nowadays, Nic's kids, he'll take them trick or treating, but only in, like, small neighborhoods.

It'll be like on the day of Halloween, It's not like here when people start setting up on like the 1st of October, you got a month of it. So for us, we're getting all the pent up years of no Halloween out of our system with these specials.

No, I loved that special, [The Haunting of Miss McGravy’s House},.my wife really loved “Lore of the Ring Light," because she likes Lord of the Rings. Was the treehouse bit [in “The Haunting of Miss McGravy’s House] just a standalone joke? “Look at all the history we have!" Or are we actually going to explore that?

It was.

We are planning on returning to the tree house.

One day.

We actually did try and do it even in season 2, and we had to cut the scene.

We love the little clubhouse type treehouse group of kids, and we wanted to make this location have the sense of history that it’s been in this world for so many years that like the kids parents would go there. But we're like, “we've had one season and we haven't had time to establish it!"

We get kind of a kick out of just going, “lean in" and just make it. It's kind of funny to us now that we had never been there and they would be really talking about the history of this precious tree. Kiff is a very free show and we get to do that, get to be silly like that. It kind of works in our favor.

I was with my family at Christmas, and we had seen Nosferatu, which we were disappointed with, so I said “no, watch this," and I popped on “The Haunting of Miss McGravy's House" and they were genuinely terrified. Especially [the scene] when they're coming down the hallway. Did you mean to actually amp up the terror in that, because it was genuinely scary.

That bit, when they sort of jitter and like crawl all along the walls, I storyboarded that bit actually, because Lucy and I wrote that episode… Kiff is such a sort of cute looking, silly show, but we felt like for a Halloween special we could have these moments where we sort of get a little bit scary or unsettling briefly, but then it balances so quickly with the, with the silliness and the comedy. So that was definitely a choice… make this really feel quite reminiscent of, like, horror. And it was fun to do.

It was fun to do and we just tend to do all these episodes to what we want to watch. Like, that's what I always want in a Halloween special. I want to feel a little prickle down my back. I don't want it to get too crazy, so it cuts really quick back to something really funny and really cute. And I think that kids love it.

That feeling of like, “oh, I didn't expect that!" That’s entertainment. That's entertainment, and we've had pretty good feedback. I was wondering like, “Is this too scary?!"

We'll never talk down to kids. We'll never underestimate our audience and we just felt like It was working for us and it was going to be fine. We had a good time with it, yeah.

We’re in the midst of Disney Road Trip. Taking the characters of Kiff to Historic Chairsburg. Is that another part of Table Town that we’ll see more of, or is that just stuck there in the shorts.

That’s just in this Road Trip.

Actually, we don't make those shorts. Disney has an incredible shorts departments who make incredible content, like all those Theme Song Takeovers and specials, which we will weigh in on and obviously lend our voices to. But that’s all them. That’s all them. We loved Historical Chairsburg, we got such a kick out of that.

I mean, I'd like to go there and check out Historical Chairsburg, maybe season 3.

We're not even at the start of season 2 yet. Season 3 is further on the horizon, but we know it's coming. Have you even got your fingers into season 3 yet?

We just read script 1, episode one. Season 3.

We've just, yeah, outlined episode three. So we're getting in there and Nic and I are about to write an episode…

Yeah, I've just written the second song in season 3, so two songs have been written. So yeah, we're at the beginning. We’re embarking on Season 3's journey. (Laughing) We’ll take any requests!

I just want that Slim Pickins song. He just takes off, “Slimmy P, Slimmy P…."

“You're on your own"

Yeah, I just need that.

What we need to try and get onto YouTube is the rest of that song that we didn't have time for.

I know, that's true.

There's more?!

Oh my god, yes.

And by the way, just so you know, that Slimmy P. moment where he goes off was not in the script. That was not written. We were in the boards for that and the episode was just going to end with hearing this voice going “you can say that again," And it's the mascot. I remember this so clearly in the board push like, well, he's on a skateboard.

Yeah, let him go.

Let's just see where he goes, we have shots of him going through town and we ended up just giving more time to it because it just made us laugh.

And that song is actually voiced by Kent Osborne. At the time he was our story editor and Co-producer, now he's our Co-EP..

He gave us the gift of that Slimmy P. jingle.

Well, thank you, Kent. I'm thinking more about that episode now…

It’s one of my favorites.

… You think the kids are gonna get into the Slimmy P. outfit, but then instead they camo themselves under it, and they're rolling him around. I love that.

It’s so stupid. I love it!

I've also said your show is an Adult Swim show in disguise. I love where it's at on Disney Channel, but there are parts of it, like that, that I feel are far more appealing to a different demo than the one that's targeted. I love all of it… I could talk at length with you guys about just stuff like Slimmy P., Trollie, and the The Riddler Society. I have plenty of questions like why that even exists.

(Laughing) Right? That was one of those moments where we were like, “how about we do a song and we make it the most random moment that we can possibly have. And now we're doing a 90s sitcom intro and that's what we're doing.

And then going back to the callbacks - with the Riddler's you also see in that intro [Kenny], the guy on the canoe from way earlier in the episode just sailing by again. There's little touches like that, but as the showrunners, what is your favorite one that has got in there somewhere in any of the episodes or that carries over across a few?

Wow.

Oh, there are so many actually, I don't know. We do it all the time. We do it in design. We do it in story, but I mean Kenny is a pretty good one.

He’s a good one. You know, it's a very difficult question to answer. There is so much and there is actually some stuff that I don't really want to say for season 2…but yeah, there's a lot of fun Easter eggs and little hidden rewards as we move forward.

There’s a lot more on the horizon with Kiff, likely into the next few years. But as for right now, season two premieres with two new episodes on Disney Channel, Disney XD, and Disney XD On Demand on Saturday, March 15, at 10:00 a.m. EDT/PDT. New episodes will air weekly on Saturdays at 10:00 a.m. EDT/PDT. Season one is available on Disney+, with season two beginning this summer.

Laughing Place recommends MouseFanTravel.com for all your Disney travel planning

Fill out the form below for a free, no obligation quote from MouseFanTravel.com